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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2014.10.13 19:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following:
- Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles
- Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry
That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use.
It is actually this simple.
Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry......
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.10.13 20:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:True Adamance wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following:
- Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles
- Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry
That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use.
It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... You have to understand this guy is probably a tanker, so going 50-1 is fair and balanced. I mean, vehicles in SW Battlefront can probably only go 25-1, what a horrible thought.
I'm a tanker and Aztec isn't...as far as I am aware.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.10.13 20:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:True Adamance wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following:
- Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles
- Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry
That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use.
It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... You have to understand this guy is probably a tanker, so going 50-1 is fair and balanced. I mean, vehicles in SW Battlefront can probably only go 25-1, what a horrible thought. Actually, if you knew me you would know that my favorite class is AV and my first Proto weapon was the Swarm Launcher. Also I have 0 SP and 0 ISK in vehicles. Also in SWBF my favorite class was the Rebel Vanguard. The guy with a lock on rocket Launcher that shot two rockets. So what's that about me being a tanker?
Fair enough but hell dude...... AT-AT's, AT-ST's, Droid Tanks, and Clone Tanks utterly annihilated infantry if used right.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.10.13 20:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:
Fair enough but hell dude...... AT-AT's, AT-ST's, Droid Tanks, and Clone Tanks utterly annihilated infantry if used right.
True, but AV quickly dispersed vehicles since they had the ability to free fire AND lock-on. So you basically had a Swarm Launcher and a Plasma Cannon in one. Also mines took out nearly half the health of tanks and destroyed speeders with just one mine.
[/quote]
Yeah that's true....but then they glowed red didn't they?
Also had to watch out for those bloody wrist rockets and grenades. If one hit your weak point you were in trouble.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.10.13 20:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:
- Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles
- Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry
Primary problem is then vehicles have nothing to do in this game. Except kill other vehicles. If all vehicles do is kill vehicles, then there's no reason for anyone to field vehicles at all. Which hits on the point that vehicles are a completely broken and unfixable mechanic in DUST, and the best we can do, is try to make vehicles equal to AV in combat power.
I'd disagree with that statement.
The purpose of HAV should be to carry and be able to deploy massive ordinance against a foes entrenched position or to enter into conflict with the intent to establish a ground vehicle dominance.
As such HAV should carry the most powerful Anti Vehicle weapons in the form of their main turrets which allow they to directly and efficiently engage enemy vehicle while being immune to small arms fire. However this cost of this is their ability to effectively engage infantry without secondary gunners.
As I see it this is what the goal of HAV should have been.
1.) To destroy enemy ground based vehicles
2.) To be able to provide a mobile firing point for up to 2 infantry units
3.) To burn down the EHP and Destroy in game objectives/ defences.
Not
1.) Wreck all infantry
2.) **** all over Dropships
3.) More infantry farming.
AV's counter role should have been the annihilation of such slow and cumbersome Heavy Assault Vehicles by being able to use their powerful weapons and superior mobility to evade the main cannon of the tank and tear it to pieces.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.10.13 22:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP.
Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry)
Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry
Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill
Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface)
Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles
Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers.
There, everyone is happy (well except Duna)
This is off the cuff btw. No, just no.
Definitely on a better better Magnus.
Embark and Disembarking Vehicles needs to take longer to prevent quick escapes or ducking out with HMG to kill AVers at close quarters.
Main turrets should always been a OHKO on direct hit but have much slower tracking speeds and verticality, Splash AOE.
With real incentive for players to carry secondary gunners for protection.
Big NO to the "requires 2-3 Avers to kill though" One well placed AVers and 3-4 shots should do it.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.10.13 22:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
More of THIS TANK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgYXup2k4B8
LESS OF THIS TANK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK8xyWq2aCw
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.10.13 22:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:Skippy Longstocking wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP.
Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry)
Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry
Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill
Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface)
Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles
Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers.
There, everyone is happy (well except Duna)
This is off the cuff btw. I like this idea. Same for ADS would be cool 
No you will never have Sky Tanks.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.10.13 22:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:
No you will never have Sky Tanks.
But we are ighting the same war dude. We need to kill those av scum!  [/quote]
Nope we need them.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.10.13 23:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:I like where tanks and AV are. Good tankers should be able to go 50-0 and goid AV'ers should kill tanks, I think that is pretty much where we are. Tankers may have issues but I don't think it is balance. Throw in the ADS and things get a little more complicated. The small changes in Delta seemed to be making pilots cry, some of that is probably justified and the changes should probably be tweaked.
How can you?
Tanks have no inertia, their primary cannon sound and feel like firing a potato gun, only half the content is present in the game...etc.
I didn't realise it until I started playing other games with better tank archetypes in it but....... HAV in Dust are just lack lustre.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2014.10.14 01:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP.
Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry)
Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry
Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill
Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface)
Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles
Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers.
There, everyone is happy (well except Duna)
This is off the cuff btw. Pure AV tanks? No. God no. Taking away their ability to shoot back would make killing them boring, and boring is a damn sin. Secondary turrets ARE mostly anti-infantry, so this is a zero-sum solution. One person drive tank? One person to destroy tank. It's that simple. There's a reason this mantra is hammered upon and that reason is Infantry Farming. One Av = One Tank lessens the phenomenon SHARPLY unless no one is willing to fit AV. 5-6 second dismount? I'd have to relearn my mobile donut roll maneuver timing but I can see this. Make the dismount time for all suits. Anyone with a team is a porcupine of death. tanks supporting an infantry push are nearly untouchable unless their blueberries take the word "incompetent" and bring it to new depths of stupidity. Right now my issue is that tanks don't act like tanks. the cannons should be slow-firing, high alpha, big blast. Any weapon set up to behave like a machinegun is absolutely set up perfectly for farming infantry.
Oh not they'd shoot back. Co-axial small turrets could be implemented. But for that slow firing big blast HAV they need to have power..... the power to knock out other tanks in a manner befitting the size and function of their main cannon.
This means having them as AV tanks.
Well not necessarily I suppose, we could run with the precepts
50mm Gun - 5.5 Second Reload : Lowest Penetrative Power, Lesser Range, Less Destructive AoE, Most Stable, Best Tracking
75mm Gun - 8.6 Second Reload.
88mm Gun - 10.5 Second reload
105mm Gun- 13.1 second reload : Highest Penetrative Power, Range, and Destructive AoE, Least Stable, Worst Tracking
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.10.14 01:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:True Adamance wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:True Adamance wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following:
- Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles
- Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry
That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use.
It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... You have to understand this guy is probably a tanker, so going 50-1 is fair and balanced. I mean, vehicles in SW Battlefront can probably only go 25-1, what a horrible thought. I'm a tanker and Aztec isn't...as far as I am aware. But Vesta you have to understand..... the good tankers.....and there were a lot of them were going upwards of 25+ kills a game even when Swarms and Forges dominated the maps from their non rendered positions. Hell I was doing it to 52/1, 62/3, 45/0 and this was before 1.7 and the Tankpocalypse. I don't care if it was fair to infantry back then (prior to 1.7 when HAV were the closest to balanced they could have been), I earnt those kills on my merits. if we had our surya and sagaris class marauder havs......then watch infantry complain.
They did.
And you lost it.
I never got the chance to pilot a Marauder.....I wasn't an operator back then..... something I regret to this day.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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